Curse

striderkaaru · Oct 21, 2005, 06:59 PM // 18:59

every time i go to the rune trader, there's one thing that always strikes me: all across the board, every major attribute rune (except for fire) only costs 100 gold. most minor runes are easily worth more than their corresponding major version.

i thought about why this is, and considering the supply and demand nature of the npc traders, realized that it is because no one would ever dream of using a major rune. those who want a boost to their attributes but are unwilling to take the hp penalty stick to minor runes. those who really want the extra attributes just go for superior runes. for an extra +1 in the attribute, you only lose -25 hp more than the major rune.

so what use, then, are major runes?
does anyone here use major runes? if so, what are your reasons for doing so? why take -50 hp for an extra +1 to the attribute or why not just go for the superior?

i thought about posting this in the suggestions forums, but i wanted some discussion amongst the community first regarding major runes.

after all, there is nothing more disheartening than having a "rare" gold armor drop for you only to id it and get a major rune. i would much rather get an uncommon blue armor that holds a minor rune. that, at least, sells for more than 25 gold at the trader.

mm00re · Oct 21, 2005, 07:05 PM // 19:05

only major I use is a vigor or an absorb

on vigor the 9 hp difference is not worth the extra 80 plat to me, I can find a sheild or wep that will make up for that.

absorb, -1 reduction in damage would be nice, but like above, not worth the plat just for that.

Just glad I bought my sup monk runes before they went crazy high

Loviatar · Oct 21, 2005, 07:06 PM // 19:06

i use a major vigor because who is willing to pay 95k extra for a few health? (except hardcore pvp)

IxChel · Oct 21, 2005, 07:08 PM // 19:08

The way I look at it... an unidentified major rune is worth about 1500 faction. I've unlocked almost all of my runes up-to, but not including superior runes, via PvE. I don't use faction for minor or major runes.

There are only two major previously identified runes that are not worthless: major absorption and vigor. Neither of these reduce your health, therefore they are strictly better than the minor equivalent (and the superiors for these two are astronomically priced).

BrandonIT · Oct 21, 2005, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Personally, I feel this is a result of Minor Runes not costing any health.

Except for Vigor and Absorbtion, I think all minor runes should cost 25 hp. Majors would be 50 hp. Superiors can be 75 hp.

Or, alternatively, have Superiors cost 100 hp to balance out the gains, with Majors at 50 hp and Minors costing none.

I've seen this is a major balance problem with the rune system ever since I started the game.

striderkaaru · Oct 21, 2005, 07:12 PM // 19:12

ok, before people misunderstand my post, i am only referring to major attribute runes. this does NOT include major vigor or major absorption, since those are always useful.

major attribute runes, however, seem to have no place in this game.

Lasareth · Oct 21, 2005, 07:16 PM // 19:16

They don't have a place in GW. By the time you're able to sacrifice 50 HP for one point, you're equally able to sacrifice the extra 25 for the last boost.

Minor runes are good because the second you step out of presearing you can slap one of each onto all your armor and have a boost in ability with no setbacks. Superior runes are good for boosting the damage to its maximum capability and specializing in one form of attribute. Major runes are a halfway that doesn't really exist in-game, unless someone isn't able to afford a superior in PvE.

In the end, one point isn't worth 50 hp. Perhaps if they lowered it to 30 hp, it would be viable.

Demonstar · Oct 21, 2005, 07:22 PM // 19:22

I use major runes.

Major healing and divine... But I have a Sip Vigor so it evens out.

x)

striderkaaru · Oct 21, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demonstar

I use major runes.

Major healing and divine... But I have a Sip Vigor so it evens out.

x)

i'm glad to see that you posted. i think that it's the people who actually do use major runes that i want to hear from. however, i would appreciate if you explained the reasons for your decision more.

why not just opt for a minor rune? how much does the extra +1 provided my major runes actually help? and why not just take the superior runes for an additional +1 for an extra -25 hp? is it just the current cost of superior monk runes that let you settle for the major runes?

Epinephrine · Oct 21, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demonstar

I use major runes.

Major healing and divine... But I have a Sip Vigor so it evens out.

x)

I'm guessing you are using a tatto in one of them, so you have a +3 (major +tattoo) and a +2 (major) from them.

You would be strictly better off to have +3 (superior) and +2 (minor+tattoo); the only reason to use a Major in this game pretty much is cost - the superiors in some are just too pricy, or you are a levelling character with armout that you'll throw away so saving the gold is worth it. I suppose there may be some builds for which you would need them, like trying to get a 12/12/12/6 disttribution or something, since 10/10/10/5 has only 2 attribute points left you can't drop one of the 10s to a 9 and use a superior while boosting the other to an 11+1, but nearly any attribute combo has a bit of wiggle room.

Darkest Dawn · Oct 21, 2005, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Quote:

Quote by Lasarath: In the end, one point isn't worth 50 hp. Perhaps if they lowered it to 30 hp, it would be viable

I agree wholeheartedly. I would be much more inclined to use one then.

Epinephrine · Oct 21, 2005, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkest Dawn

I agree wholeheartedly. I would be much more inclined to use one then.

We all would, 2 majors would beat a superior and a minor. If it were 37.5 you'd break even. Even at 40 health it might be doable, as you would only lose 5 health using 2 majors compared to a superior and a minor.

Ollj · Oct 21, 2005, 07:44 PM // 19:44

+1 -0 health
+2 -50 health
+3 -75 health
Superior Vigor +50 health

Most people simply only look at "+attribute per -health" and either only use one "+3 rune" or 4 to 5 "+3 runes" not knowing how "+attribute" really is ballanced to "-health".

Barely anyone does NOT USE ANY "+3 rune" at all even if he could and should with his necro/monk build or similar.

I'm not sure how its ballanced, too, but i might find out. I bet its reasonable and something exponential with "enchanted" triangular numbers.

+25 health can be more important than -1 attribute (mayor to superior) and less important than -1 attribute for +50 health (mayor to minor).
can it?
yes, because the attribute point costs grow faster than the triangular numbers.

Carinae · Oct 21, 2005, 07:45 PM // 19:45

I have though about this too. Maybe they should lower the hp penalty to -40 or -45 to increase the attractiveness of majors.

Might even consider adding a small 10-15 hp penalty for minors.

+1 minor -15 health
+2 major -45 health
+3 superior -75 health

This balances the runes, and doesn't favor one type over any other.

NOTE: I am running 3 minors and a sup, so this would cost me hp too. So don't flame that I don't use minor runes.

Tmm Ryan · Oct 21, 2005, 07:53 PM // 19:53

i was thinking more along the lines of

+1 minor - 10
+2 major - 30
+3 superior - 50

only major runes i have are vigor and absorb others are strength,tactics,sword

Man With No Name · Oct 21, 2005, 07:53 PM // 19:53

As far as Health Penalties wouldn't:

+1 Minor -25 HP
+2 Major -50 HP
+3 Superior -75 HP

Be the more logical choice..??

Regardless Major Runes are a bit of a trap -- much like the Forititude vs +Armour Mods on weapons.

As far as PvP characters, I'd either run:
- All Minors
- 2 Superiors
- 1 Superior + Minors

There's not really any reason to not go to another Superior over a Major -- the majority of the damage has been done.

Hanuman li Tosh · Oct 21, 2005, 07:54 PM // 19:54

worthless is 100% subjective.

the only time i could see it being viable is if say you needed exactly 2 more points in an attribute to trigger something specific.

Savio · Oct 21, 2005, 07:56 PM // 19:56

There's already a thread on major runes on the suggestion boards already. Bump that one.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=65302